1. Who we are and What inspired us

In this episode we share who we are and what inspired us 

As two women, post 55, we feel a deep yearning  - for something more true, more wise, more real. In this episode we share what brought us here, what we've each had to shed to arrive and the shared conviction that older women carry a wisdom the world urgently needs to hear. 

About this podcast

We believe the voice of the older woman is medicine for the world.

Elizabeth Lovius and Liz Scott are two women post-55 with a combined century of living, loving and learning. Although opposites in personality, pace and lifestyle, we share a deep passion for inside-out transformation. Our individual career journeys have led us to inspire, coach and teach people to reconnect to their own inner wisdom in business and community settings.

In The Wild, Wise Feminine, we share our unfiltered conversations about what it really means to come into your own, be seen and hold the line for love.

Whether you're navigating the territory beyond menopause yourself, or simply curious about the wild wisdom that emerges when women start trusting what they know - we'd love you to pull up a chair.

If you want to get in touch - contact us at:  lizscottcoaching@me.com

For more about and how to work with Elizabeth Lovius www.elizabethlovius.com 

For more about and how to work with Liz Scott www.lizscott.co.uk

Transcript

Liz Scott 0:01

Hello and welcome to the Wild, Wise Feminine.

Elizabeth Lovius 0:09

We believe the voice of the feminine elder is medicine for the world. We are Elizabeth Lovius and Liz Scott. Two women with a combined century of living, loving, and learning.

Liz Scott 0:26

In the Wild Wise Feminine, we share our unfiltered conversations about what it really means to come into your own, be seen, and hold the line for love.

Elizabeth Lovius 0:39

We'd love you to pull up a chair. In this episode, we share who we are and what inspired us.

Liz Scott 0:57

We are two women. Post 55. We both feel a deep yearning for something more true, more wise, more real.

A little bit about us and who we are

Elizabeth Lovius 1:08

In this episode, we share what brought us here, what we've each had to shed to arrive, and the shared conviction that older women carry a wisdom the world urgently needs to hear. So a little bit about me and what brings me here today to uh this conversation with my dear friend Liz, who I've known for a while now, and we've had a few other projects together and passions. I think it's something to do with um change that occurs for a woman post-menopause. So we all know the perimenopause or the pre and during menopause period is a very intense one for women. But I my experience is I'm 62 at the moment, um, is that post-55 something shifts. And the closer I got to 60, I started to notice things falling away, coming away from me. And I started to notice that my relationship post-60 with my life and what I wanted changed deeply, which I didn't expect because I've been a very active run my own business, mother of two, living in two countries, always got a good idea on the go, always wanting to manifest and create and active, activate some big idea. And I love that. I've got a lot of energy and I'm quite the extrovert. I've been working with executive clients for over 30 years, household names, you know, IBM, Marx and Spencer's. Um, so I've gotten to know the corporate world really, really well. And that's been a joy to bring people in the corporate environment back home to themselves on the inside. They're in a game. Because, you know, I have a little strat line. When your inner game aligns, your outer game shines. I like that. Very nice. So it's memorable, but really this idea that what's going on in the inside shapes everything, is everything. And I've been working uh as a leadership development and coaching uh person for in this conversation. What does it take in business to have your inner game align so that you perform and you know envision a powerful vision that has people come on the journey with you as a leader? And yet that has been such a um, it's not even a vocation. I was looking for it's not a job. It's a vocation, it's something I've always loved to do and been a geek about and been passionate about it. And about, I don't know, I want to say something like 12 years ago, I came across something called the Inside Out Understanding, which was really profound when it came to understanding your inner game. And we'll talk more about that. And that's where we met. We met on that journey, and we both came to it from very different backgrounds and and yet saw something profound for ourselves, first of all, personally, and then saw that we wanted to help other people see the same kind of pat the power we have inside. And I think my journey too has brought me to a lot of executive women, women who are navigating the stages in their late 40s, early 40s is one stage, then then there's the sort of mid to late 40s, which is perimenopause, then then what now, you know, as they navigate post-menopause, and and then my peers who are in the same age as me, you know, I I see the shifts. And I think what's brought me to this conversation with you, Liz, is that I I really wanted to have the conversation with someone who's past that, you know, menopausal journey and is now looking at that, what I call the third chapter. And somebody, a grounded, wise woman who has navigated her own inner game journey and is seeing something about that and exploring that. And that's where I am too right now in my life. And I I have an expression I use uh a lot at the moment. Uh, what got you here won't get you there. And it's like I I honor the person I was, full of energy and focus and drive and possibility as uh a sacred time of my life. And I notice I'm in a different phase now, and it seems to be about different things. And I'm wondering uh if other women, when they turn 60, around 60, notice the same calling, or I call it a yearning for something.

The yearning for pilgrimage

The power of older women

Liz Scott 6:02

Yeah, I know I know when we were discussing this podcast, you used the word yearning, and we we spent a bit of time reflecting on that, sort of a shift. And it's really interesting actually, just to hear your story, because I guess for me, I'm 57, and for the past two years, I've been on a very much an inner journey. And just hearing what you said about post-55, I'm like, oh yes, that would fit in with my journey where where I've I worked quite extensively for a time in the community. Um and again, we we have, like you said, this inside-out understanding is very foundational to everything I share. And so for me, it was a combination of the lockdowns during COVID. Um, my husband had some health issues, and I just looked to my local community to share what I knew in my local community. And then we went into lockdowns. And I've spent some time exploring this work in the community through listening. I call it well-being listening. And I guess what I and and we ran a conference together, didn't we? Some time ago. And honestly, it was I think you know, our personalities are so different. You are this, have this extraordinary energy, and I'm sort of slow and steady, Eddie. That's that's that's me. And I live my life in that sort of, I'm quite consistent, I'm slow, but I get there. That's that's me. And and I think one of the things that I've realized since shifting my attention out of my community locally and moving my attention more towards older women, it really aligns with this inner journey I've been on. And it and of course the outer journey, because uh earlier this year in 2025, I had this yearning, which is such a great word. Uh, I had this yearning to go on a pilgrimage, walk across England following energy currents, the Michael and Mary energy currents. Um, and it took me from Cornwall, which is in the west of England, all the way up to Norfolk, which is in the east of England. And I walked for seven weeks, day in, day out, walking each day. And it, I mean, there's so much from the pilgrimage, which is still informing and I'm learning from my life. But there was something about the pilgrimage, almost like being a bridge from this journey of looking inwards. And I I've come off this pilgrimage. One of the things that landed so clearly for me was the power of older women. And of course, I put myself in this category now, which is it's unseen, it's often unacknowledged. There are women in community, for example, that I've seen that are so that they have this strong light within them, but they almost like they almost like put a lampshade on themselves or they try and cover it over because they don't want to be seen. And and I feel very strongly that one of the messages I got from the pilgrimage for myself personally is this message around older women standing in authenticity, taking up space, taking up their space, and expressing themselves in the world. And this this is my journey, and I guess I'm curious if that links in with other women's other women as well on their journey in older life.

What is mine to do? Our medicine for the world.

Elizabeth Lovius 9:49

Well, um I think what we give voice to begins to shift as well. So in addition to this sense of we have something to offer, but maybe we're not expressing it, I've also noticed that the I'm thinking of a quote. Um I'm gonna get it wrong, but it's basically something like this Archbishop of Canterbury on his gravestone from the Middle Ages, something like this. When I was young, I wanted to change the world. And then I realized that was too hard. So then I wanted to change my country. And then I realized that was beyond me. So I decided I wanted to change my village. And then uh, and then I realized that was also too big. So I decided I'm gonna change my family. Well, we all know how that works out. So he was left with in the end, it was only myself I can change. And I think that that is what I've noticed in my own journey, that in terms of giving voice to something, I was always very much on the change the world spectrum. And I now notice at this age, I'm content with just what I what is for me, what is my work, the inner game stuff we've talked about, the the the the inner pilgrimage, we could even say, or the external pilgrimage. And then what that gives voice to is for my for me to speak. So uh I think that's probably every woman's journey at this stage. And I think it's important and crucial that we speak it. So whether or not we feel up to speaking about it, I think it's oh, I'm gonna get I feel emotional now because I get these tingles when I it's like I receive divine information. It's the medicine the world needs right now, and it's urgent.

Liz Scott 11:46

Yes. And you know, what's really uh interesting in what you say is going back to the pilgrimage, there are two energy currents which are Michael and Mary. So there seem to be a male and female energy current. And one of the things I really noticed from the pilgrimage was this sense of balance. And I know this is an area for you that you've looked into much more than I have. Maybe I'm at the early stages of this, but the the the feminine energy, the female energy. Um, and one of the things I noticed about the energy currents is they cross over. So there are points where they cross over, they're called node points, and often they're seen as very sacred places like Glastonbury and Avebury. But these it it's there's something sacred about these energy currents, and for me, there feels something sacred about this space of the older woman, which is kind of what I'm hearing you you say.

Elizabeth Lovius 12:51

Yeah.

Liz Scott 12:51

We we don't really, or at least I don't really have anybody in my culture, unless I go searching very hard that represents this stage of older womanhood in a positive way, in a a way where society acknowledges older women. And so I'm really curious. You've been on this journey a bit longer than me, and I know you've explored it a bit longer than I have, but I know you're, you know, you have got uh inspiration from different areas around this female energy, and I'd love to hear a bit more about that.

Understanding Feminine and Masculine energies

Connection to the spiritual - trusting intuition

Elizabeth Lovius 13:25

Oh, thank you. My my favorite topic. I think that's why we're here, Liz. Thank you for having me. I would say, I want to say something like 55. So around 55, I started to awaken to these the notion of feminine and masculine energies. Now that's not new. In fact, it's probably been there from before the dawn of time, these energies, these if you think of them as spiritual energies, but they are fundamental to all life, as we know. There's an egg and a sperm, they come together, they make life, they're masculine, feminine energies. And I realized around age 55 that I had lived in a masculine way in business as a woman, even though I have two children, I did all the things, it's something called attachment parenting, which is a very feminine approach to parenting. And I did I did a lot of um feminine things. I loved getting my nails done. And you know, I was quite a feminine person, but I had operated in a masculine way. And what I see now about that is that's because the world of business is a masculine environment. And what I mean by that is I don't mean male, I mean the values of the masculine, which is the world of form, achievement, goals, make things happen, get it done, structure, order, process. The bottom line, these are all words you'll hear a lot in business. And so what is valued is that kind of way of being. And by the way, that is crucial and necessary. There's nothing wrong with that. But what I realized is I had inadvertently adopted those values from really a young age. I kind of started working in the 80s in IBM, and that was the world I operated in, and I didn't even know it could be any different. And it was the 80s, so big shoulder pads, you know, big suits. It was like power dressing. It was called power dressing. So there was this power energy, and it was a masculine energy. And then around 55, I started to realize, and this is quite sad, really, what it had cost me. And what it had cost me is for me personally being in my feminine energy, and what that looks like to me now is flow. It's more chaotic, it's it's not requiring order, it's more mystical, it's more spiritual, you could even say. That which we can't put in a box and measure, and yet we know. And most of all, our capacity to create. Now, all men and women can create because we have both energies, but this feeling of being really deeply connected to one's feminine energy is the capacity to create ideas, to receive divine inspiration and to flow with them. And I noticed that I'd operated in a world where I had put order on top of whatever idea I had very quickly. And I hadn't allowed myself to flow because the bottom line. So that was my first taste, and my first experience of it was sadness because I realized I had sacrificed something in order to be, in my case, I was the provider in the family, and that took me on a deep journey to really learn to respect, understand value, and honor the the feminine within and the feminine in general. And so I did a lot of study into it. And uh I I have a number of different teachers, but I feel like that's uh quite a lot I've said there. So um what I'm interested to hear from you is what you've noticed around your journey with masculine and feminine through these, through the pilgrimage, maybe, because that seems like a good entry point.

Liz Scott 17:45

Yeah, well, I I think what you were saying there really resonated as you were speaking, which is this idea of flow, this idea of connection to the spiritual, to feeling. Um there are so many of my friends who are women who I can we can communicate with each other by saying, yeah, I just it doesn't feel right. And we don't need to go to ask like intellectually, well, what do you mean? We go, okay, well, I would trust that spidey sense of yours. It doesn't feel right, don't go there. Whereas I notice that often when I'm out speaking, people want a story. So, for example, I think the pilgrimage was a really great example because for me, I have shifted much more into trusting intuition and wisdom. And of course, in the world of business as you describe it, I know that's your world, but that's not really something that's understood or there isn't a vocabulary for that. But the the truth is, I I trust my intuition and wisdom. And when it came to walking the pilgrimage, it it made no sense for me to do it. Financially, it made no sense at the time my dad was alive when I um started to plan it. I was helping to care for my dad. I genuinely didn't know what was going to happen with my caring responsibilities, but I continued to plan it. Uh, it meant that I closed down my social enterprise. It meant that I was not actively looking for clients because I wasn't going to be able to be with them over this period. It was going to be, I didn't want to have any work calls, I didn't want to accommodate anybody else. It was my time. And people asked me and still ask me, why did you do why did you walk this pilgrimage? And I could come up with some stories that would satisfy that intellectual way of being. So, for example, my dad passed away last year. And I know it would be a very acceptable story to say, well, my dad passed away, and I just wanted some time on my own and processing grief. And that went on during the pilgrimage, but that wasn't why I did it. Uh, the reason I did it is there was something I listened to quite compelling in me that wanted to be expressed. And as I was walking the pilgrimage, I realized that I wasn't walking a pilgrimage. This wasn't little Liz walking a pilgrimage. There was the spirit of a pilgrimage that wanted to be walked through me. Now that try explaining that to people, it's it's it's not the language we speak, and yet for me, that felt more true. I didn't walk a pilgrimage, and it wasn't like I was chosen in a special way, it because somebody said, Oh, that's nice. So you would like you were chosen. I was like, no, no, it it just wanted to be expressed through me. And I know that musicians and artists often use that as a metaphor, and I really understand that now is that something is being created through me. So I really hear what you're saying about this space of touching that which is not in the world of form. And for me, that is the balance that I feel I am able to contribute, which is offering something that is not dismissing the world of form, but is in balance or helps to balance the world of form. I love that.

The Feminine goes first (with her desire for better)

Everyone appreciates a wise woman

Elizabeth Lovius 21:38

Uh what I'd love to build on is this this deep and profound respect for that world of the formless realm. And what I've seen about that through my really the last seven years. And what I've seen is it's blinded me. With the light. I don't know if it's by the light. And I couldn't quite believe it. But I know it's true. It's one of those knowing you can't convince me otherwise. And it is simply this the feminine goes first. It looks like we live in a masculine world where the masculine decides everything. The feminine goes first energetically, with a receptivity to exactly what you just said, the divine wanting to be experienced. And the feminine goes first with a desire, not an intellectual desire, an embodied desire of knowing what is right and good for them and for the whole, the whole that they serve, their family, their community, their business, their country, whatever the environment is. The feminine is energy within us, receives divine inspiration as a vision for what will serve the whole. And it is at the heart of the feminine energetic to do so. And it doesn't come from logic, it comes from a deep embodied knowing. And the feminine then, if she gives voice to it, then it can, then it has a chance to be manifested in the world of form. And the feminine energetic then invites with a little wink the masculine to make it so. Now that can be within you, or it can be an actual, if you're a female, you oh, I'd really love a garden with maybe a pagola in it. That would be so nice in the summer. And the masculine's like, right, I'm building that pagola, you know, the actual masculine environment around you. Or you you find the person that that is wants to play with you. So this dance, this crossing over of the lines, as you said, is a constant. It doesn't, it's just not one and one, it's it's the feminine desire, and then the masculine provides, and then the feminine comes back in, and then the masculine makes it, you know, says boundaries. This needs to be, has these boundaries, and it just continues like that with us within ourselves, but also with other humans. And so I've really seen that it is the role of the feminine energy to go first. And I think it even is biological. There's a there's an energy of the feminine that invites the masculine, you the door is open. That has to happen first. Now, obviously, we know that doesn't always go that way, but that is the healthy way of the system. The feminine goes, I'm receptive. That's the that's the territory of the feminine to receive that which is other, not just the world of form, to receive. Uh, and so I really started to respect that because the masculine energy is active and providing, and the feminine is receptive and desiring. And I started to see that at the post-55 we have skills, experience, knowledge. We've suffered, it's really fully my suffering right now. We've suffered, we've had pain and we've suffered. And this it's hollowed us out and it's brought us back. And I know you've had your own, and I'll I'll pass the bat on to you in the last year. Um there's a sense of for falling away when you really experience pain. There's a sense of falling away uh what's not so important because you you you're in the slings and arrows of of life, and you can only meet that, and everything else is sort of irrelevant, whether or not you get your nails done, for example. You know, it's so things fall away that are not really at the heart of things. So you have as a result of that compassion and wisdom. And I would say I started to realize this was true. Every person, male or female, and especially male, when the chips are down, will look for the wisest woman they know to talk to. Because of the intuition, because of the connection, because of the compassion, because of the wisdom, and because they will tell you the truth, because they're not attached anymore to what other people think, or to getting a mate, or any of the other things that that they we might be attached to when we're younger. There's a sense of authenticity and grace that a wise woman, a grandmother you could say, or someone of a grandmother's age, brings to the tribe that is um crucial. So I'd love to hear what you heard in that that you can relate to or that you've seen for yourself, Liz.

We can listen for wisdom and wellbeing

Liz Scott 27:07

I guess the w one of the things that occurred to me as you were speaking about m masculine and feminine energy is I I see that they both exist within this Yes, either's caudalism. I think that's probably important to to say that that that this isn't about saying fem, you know, if you're biologically female, that you have feminine energy, if you're biologically man, you have male energy. And we we we're saying that these energies exist it within everybody. And and I think that's really important to say. And I think the the bit that really, really struck me that and I was like, oh yeah, that I really see that, was when you were saying about the feminine energy going first or in front or whatever the language was you used that. And certainly for me, I before I had the language of masculine energy and feminine energy, and I and I have to say I have a little bit of a I I almost don't like using the words because they've got connotations that people will potentially misinterpret. But just for the sake of this conversation, when I was looking at listening and I explored in my community something called well-being listening, and this was about really supporting people, seeing the well-being in another person, seeing the well-being in themselves and listening out for that. That's essentially what well-being listening is all about. I really saw that the the the insights or the knowing or the intuition and the wisdom that comes with that kind of listening uh leads before the intellect.

Elizabeth Lovius 28:54

Yeah.

We've got it topsy - turvy. Intuitive wisdom leads the Intellect (not the other way round)

Liz Scott 28:55

So so something I remember once I was, it was during lockdown, so I was doing a demonstration on Zoom of this well-being listening with a group. And I remember that the person I was listening to, she had some pot plants in the background. Now I was listening to what she was saying, but there was something within me that that had me say, and again, it wasn't me being clever, it it wasn't me thinking, oh, this is a good idea, I must ask this. Something came through, which I say is is like that wisdom, that female energy. And I pointed out her pot plants, and I don't even remember what I said, but what happened with her is she fell into a place of well-being as she recalled how much she loved her plants. Like it was no the feminine energy as we're talking about, and I maybe used the the language of wisdom and intuition, is that that's fresh every time it comes through. But so it's not that the people who were observing this demonstration, it's not that when you listen to somebody, and if they've got a plant in the background, you point out the plant, like, oh yes, what Liz did is she mentioned the plants. Next time when I listen to someone, I must mention the plants. For me, that's the intellect. Sorry, that's the intellect leading. And it doesn't work like that. And we've we've lived in a topsy-turvy world where we've tried to put form to this well of intuition and wisdom that's forever creatively coming into play. And we tried to capture it, and you don't need to. It's the opposite. The intellect, which is this masculine style of energy, it gives language to the formless energy that's coming through. It gives form, it gives words, but actually it's in service of, even within ourselves, that intuition, that wisdom. And I've noticed that so much more as an older woman. Does that resonate with you?

It's time for us to use our voices and lead from love

Elizabeth Lovius 31:14

That totally makes sense. And I'd I'd love to give a short example that completely illuminates this for me and really illustrates it. We've all been to restaurants, we've been to a hundred, maybe a hundred restaurants, you know, or more in our lifetime. And the process is similar. They greet you, they seat you, they give you a menu, they ask for a drink, you get your food, you order, you get your food, they clear your plates, you leave, you get the bill, you leave, right? The process is pretty consistent. But the feeling. The feeling, right from when you the ambience they call it, when you walk into the room, the way you are greeted, and how your your waitress can even say all the right things, but still you feel they're not there. And and then a waitress can or waiter can say the wrong things, but you feel they're with you, or get them even make mistakes and get the process wrong, bring you the wrong thing. But the way they are, and this is the quality that we're talking about, this this ineffable element that is beyond process, beyond the intellect, beyond the order. And it's and it's actually how humans um it's it's and we need and a bird cannot fly with one wing. It's not one is better than the other. It's just I I sense that this this feminine energy that's within us all, like you say, it's not uh the domain of gender. I mean, really, phenotypical gender is not what we're talking about. Let's just take that off the table. That that's a whole other thing. That's not what this is. This is the energy which we all have. It's um oriented to service and love and connection and creation, what will what will work for everyone. And I feel like this is again, I feel the emotion rising in me as I as I said, as I as I receive this divine message, at the age we are, post-55, it's time. It's time for us to use our voices to advocate for what we know in our bones. It's time to bring more compassion to the other in this deeply partisan world we see, we live in, where there's a seems to be a right and a wrong side to be on all the time. But it's not true. It's not true, and I'm sure anybody who's listening to us, Liz, will have found themselves on the other side in the last five years than they expected to be with close friends on a certain subject. And I'm not even going to list them. That we know that what the polarizing subjects have been in of the last five years, and and I myself has found myself literally, my best friend and I had oppositional views on a particular matter that was so deep it it was threatening the relationship. And you know what we did because we love each other, we said we are not going to agree, but love wins. That's what the older woman can do, can rise to compassion. Let me let me understand you and let us let us love each other anyway. We don't have to agree intellectually. And then, of course, the third element is this our capacity for wisdom to be the leader, the guide, as you say, fresh in the moment. And this is what is needed in every setting, in the in the family setting, in the community setting, in the business setting, and in definitely in the global leader setting. So, or the governance setting. So, so the voice of the older woman and what she's seen and what she knows is needs, I think, expression, encouragement, and honoring. Well, glad I got that outlif.

Don't shrink back, take your space and bring your gifts

Liz Scott 35:14

Yeah, no, and acknowledgement. I would add that to your list there because I think and and I I hear it and I love what you've just said. It just feels to me as though I want to share with older women, and I would love older women to start to trust what they know to be true. Yes, and to express themselves in a way that feels authentic to them in the world. And when I use the term take up space, take up your space, take up our space as older women, yeah. For me, it it feels as though we've habitually, and society has wanted older women to sort of to shrink back rather than to step forward. And this isn't about getting your elbows out and taking up anybody else's space. This is about women taking up their space. And I think what you just said there, and it just struck me, is that if you know, if if there's someone watching or listening to this, where this resonates, it's like this is for you to trust that which is coming through you. Don't don't try and dismiss it, don't try and intellectualize it, don't try and um put form to it. It's almost like just get used to feeling it and trusting it in yourself. Because for me, this is about, and you've said it in a couple of times, and I just want to say it in maybe my way, but I think it's exactly the same as what you're saying, is that that very sense that you're feeling, if you are feeling this and you're listening to this, of this wisdom coming through you is exactly what the world needs. And we're not saying to change the whole world, like you said about that quote on the gravestone. Yeah not even the community, not even your family. This is about you honoring yourself and what it is you are in the world. Um, and if it feels appropriate, giving form to that wisdom that is intuition, that feminine energy, whatever the languages we use for it, that you have a real sensitivity to because that's the stage of your life you're in, and that is the gift that you've got, and we want you to really enjoy that gift.

Elizabeth Lovius 37:35

I'm gonna have to find the actual research. Uh but I know that Dr. Christina Northrup wrote a book called The Wisdom of Menopause, and one of the pieces in there, she is she talks about intuition and wisdom at this stage of life. And there's they've done some kind of study which is an exponential increase in women's intuition post-menopause. And it's it's like almost in the design, our design, we're designed to have those mystical knowings and give them voice. And traditionally, before the Western world model took over, we lived in tribes, and the wise women were sacred guides that people came to and sat with, and they they midwife people through birth and death, and they were the healers and the the people that knew the lineage of herbs, and it they were highly skilled in whatever their pastime was, and so they were always sought out as advisors, and the grandmothers are the ones that that hold the glue, you could say, and so yes, it's time, I feel, for us to um encourage ourselves and other women of our stage and age to be that, to listen to their own guidance and to give it voice. And I don't think there could be anything more loving, helpful, and self-nourishing and nourishing for others at this stage of life than to do that. Beautiful.

Liz Scott 39:19

And for me, that's what this podcast is all about. In in different ways exploring this intuition, this wisdom, this energy that our Western culture has tried to quash or put down. And and I think I really want to make the point here, this is not about right or wrong or or saying that you know men are bad or bloody. It's like that's not this conversation. We've all we've all been hoodwinked, men and women, for for for millennia. And it it's the time is now to open our eyes to a different way and to own it and to step into it and to allow going right back to what you said at the beginning, to allow the flow of this. So that's what I feel quite inspired by this podcast to explore, and I know that's the themes that we'll be playing with moving forward.

Elizabeth Lovius 40:28

You've been listening to the Wild Wise Feminine Podcast with Elizabeth Lovius and Liz Scott.

Liz Scott 40:35

If you want to get in touch, take a look at the show notes. We'd love to hear from you.